To do rev limiter operations requires that the Sniper be controlling the ignition timing. Sniper is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it. Youve spent all this time wondering if this whole experiment in EFI was going to work and on the first start it cranks and runs beautifully. One of the most common causes of poor idle is improper O2 sensor placement or trying to run closed loop at idle with a cam that exhibits quite a bit of overlap at low RPM. Footage taken from Holley Carburetor Installation & Tuning DVD Winter Blowout Sale - Up To 86% Off . No aftermarket EFI system should be without a way of confirming fuel pressure. But you can extend the leads using wires of an equal or heavier gauge. seems to be running rich at a idle. Thanks. And the less correction you do until you understand that---the better! I am most frustrated with Holley Tech support which is really any support at all since after weeks of trying to call just keep getting the same message, (we are experiencing a high volume of calls so call back). I have the 12-1800 dual holley pump also. Connect the crank and run wires together and all should be good. Granted, car was not on but still seemed like a lot of fuel to be returning. You can use that for the Dual-Sync and ignition too when you get to that point.Running the O2 sensor on a single side of the dual exhaust works fine. Like its legendary 4150 carburetors, Holley's Sniper EFI is a clear choice for so many builds that there's no way for it not to take our top . I've gone through all the steps and cannot seem to solve the problem. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Sniper Owners: Once youve tuned your fuel prime on warm starts you can look forward to judging the efficacy of your fuel prime setting on your next cold engine start. Latest Articles. Sounds like it is "only" burning through the initial priming shot. Two values affect how this occurs: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time. Stay up to date with the latest releases, events, promotions and more. And it may have improvedor it may have gotten worse. Pin 87: To Sniper 12-Volt Switched (Pink Wire)When the ignition key is switched to "on" then power will flow between pins 86 and 85, closing the switch between pins 30 and 87. Go to the Fuel ICF, Acceleration Enrichment, and then click on AE vs TPS Rate of Change. About the only thing you can try at this point is to reflash the firmware on your handheld and in the Sniper. The amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC Park Position and is temperature dependent. Holley knows how to do math! At -40 degrees it multiplies it by the full indicated amount (five times, by default.) This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). Super helpful and knowledgeable. Different engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture. Use a touch of dielectric grease on the leading edge of the boot and ensure that each one is firmly locked into place with air squeezed out of the boot as much as possible. (Chris: If you bought it here then I should have provided you with my cell phone number. superchargeddrt Well-Known Member Joined Aug 24, 2009 Messages 2,420 Reaction score 1,102 Start by going after the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel injected into the engine before cranking begins. Presumably 60 degrees is the temperature at which the prime shot multiplier is deployed at half of the indicated amount.). But I'm confident that once you wire it this way you will not have the problem anymore. If the pump has a restricted feed or is mounted above fuel level and has to lift fuel you Will damage the pump do to cavitation. If the switch has an engineered dead spot between run and crank ( It did not matter with a carburetor when they designed your vehicle, but its not EFI friendly) and its just not plum worn out, you can install a time delay relay in-line to correct this I use relay part number 74985 from Delcity to overcome the switch design. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. I see recommended plugs are resistor type. Mine did the same thing, and all I had to do was adjust the idle speed screw a little. Directly to the BATTERY!!! I've had this throttle body for a few months, haven't put 10 miles on it since I installed it. A throttle linkage extender and a progressive linkage kit. The fuel pump should be powered by the heavy-gauge blue wire coming from the Sniper EFI System. Also check your cranking voltage if it starts hard. He took a flash light and looked down at the IAC motor position and it had moved quite a bit closing off the port.Now I had to try this and of course my results were not so lucky. Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. The Coolant Temperature starts at 106% and decays to 100% at 160 degrees. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not your problem. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. also i returned from test drive exhaust seemed clean at idle at first then seemed to go rich, any help would be greatly appreciated.Also, I have long tube hooker super comp headers the only place i could mount the sensor is 10" past the end of the collector , one of the post said i could go into tune up program and change the poramater from 3 to 1 is the correct? Unfortunately, I know NOTHING about throttle stops. I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. But as long as you keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you will be okay. The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. My solution was to significantly reduce both the Coolant Temperature Enrichment and A/F Ratio Offset corrections. multi-port EFI systems Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? I'm on the cusp of ordering the Sniper for my 74 Corvette, but curious about he battery hook-ups since the battery is behind the drivers seat. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. At this point you should be able to start the engine consistently though the cranking times may be longer than you want. Both of these are easily corrected. That's a spread of 200 degrees so half of that would be 100 degrees. We stock the PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank. If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. Holley Sniper EFI Check Latest Price. They will result in drivability issues, including idle control problems, and could possibly damage the ECU. FE 390 that currently has a Pertronix distributor with the Ignitor 2 module. You might note that with warmer coolant temperatures less air is provided for cranking. ), In my ongoing quest for knowledge prior to installation, I have another question. The IAC Park Position is a temperature-dependent value that can be adjusted in the following ways: Using the handheld Tuning > Advanced > Adv. RPM Above Idle to Re-Enable Idle Control.You could simply drop 2.) Keep ignition wires away from ECU harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression. Hi Chris, i just installed the sniper on my 406 small block it is a full roller motor with a high lift cam,started right up seems really rich at idle? Thanks, Steve! Let me know what works for you! This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector. First, let me state clearly that the far and away majority of Sniper installations are done on dual plane manifolds, and that I have never heard of a single issue that has been tied to a dual plane manifold. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. So here's how I'd do it:Pin 86: To your ignition switch (12 volts) There must be an option that has been found to work. Then, click on AE vs MAP Rate of Change and change that to 15 as well. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! Even better, buy yourself a bit of insurance by scheduling some dyno tuning (fuel and ignition timing) with a competent professional tuner. Is that an expectable by-product of adding this relay? Ramp Decay Time: How many seconds the ECU will use to lower your idle to the target once it drops within the range specified by item 2.). Yeah, I have the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to the battery. It just can't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition. Holley Sniper EFI--Look, No ECU or Wiring Harness! Enjoy! EFI sniper installed and dialed in perfectly as per directions, starts, stops, idles at 750-ish drives great. Not bad but maybe we can improve that. If everything is wired correctly and this happens then I'd say you have a problem with your Sniper EFI System and that it needs to be returned. My car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week. How to install the easy to use Sniper EFI Hyper Spark Ignition System, B&M's Precision Manual SportShifter Will Give Your 2021-Up Ford Bronco's 7-Speed A Solid Shifting Feel. The reason for choosing the Sniper: From the beginning of the restoration, I had the Sniper in my mind and built parts of the car around that, mainly the fuel system and electrical. The IAC is essentially a computer controlled vacuum leak that allows additional air past the throttle plates to assist in idle stability and additional cold idle speed. A brief spray of fuel is injected before cranking. Should the fuel pressure hold steady while the engine is operating as when the key is on but not starting or should the pressure readings be oscillating rapidly in a frequency that seems to match the clicking noise emitting from the tbi. Capability Range: Professional In fact, MOST of the points on the fuse block don't do that! Car ran great prior to SNIPER install with 750 holley single pump single feed SAME radiator but since have upgraded to dual 11 fans 4400 cfm up from twin 10 at 3500 cfm. Quick Start Tuning. It is also coming through the idle air port. At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration IF the engine seems to be running smoothly. Thanks! He gave no details, is this an option and how would one go about this. Engines require three things to run. I plan to gradually bring the Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens. How will this setup work? Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off. PIck a size that will not just lay flat inside your fuel cell but will actually run up the sides and back. Until then, Terminator X users will have to work with the cranking fuel table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel shot. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. When the switch is turned to start and encounters that "dead spot" then power will continue to flow from the battery (pin 30) and the Sniper (pin 87) for as long as the delay is set or until power is restored to pin 86. Ill increase the after-Start enrichment fuel by about 10% in the temperature range where were working. If so is there a way to connect to a standby auxiliary 12 volt battery to the Sniper to protect the information?Many thanks,Louis. Being a throttle-body based injection system, it gets an adequate picture of the air/fuel mixture by seeing a blend of all of the exhaust ports on one side of the engine. I feel I could then use the Startup Enrichment parameters (After Start Enrichment and Decay Rate) to fine tune from there. MAIN POWER AND GROUND need to go to the battery. It needs the tip pointed down at least 10 degrees from horizontal and at least 15 degrees from vertical I prefer about a 45 degree angle from horizontal. Sure. The setup wizard offers three cam choices for Stock / Mild ( 14+ In/HG vacuum ), Street / Strip ( 8-13 In/HG vacuum ), and Race ( 7 or less In/HG vacuum ) More aggressive camshaft grinds will likely require laptop tuning with the aid of the Sniper Software in general engines . But let me elaborate a bit. Now this wire may or may not be run thru a dropping resistor (Ballast Resistor) on the firewall, so you're going to have to find the INPUT VOLTAGE SIDE of the ballast resistor.Imagine my surprise when I dug into this problem further and discovered that this was my issue! If the fuel pressure is a little low don't worry about that. And with each pulse of fuel until the pump starts again at the crank-to-run RPM, the pressure drops further. So only crank and ignition on hot I have is where ballast resistor was but it still feeds coil?Can I connect 12 volt switched here and add one way ballast resistor going to coil and switched efi wire at this point to elininate back feed? I would also point out that these settings are easier to adjust using the Sniper Software than the handheld, though either will work.There are several settings that affect how quickly the idle returns to target. my screen recording software i. Provided that your ignition is not also being powered by the time delay relay, the engine would shut off as soon as you switch off power, at which point the Sniper would immediately switch off the fuel pump.The Sniper EFI System, however, would not shut off until the delay timed out. That should be adequate to get the engine running. And I've helped my share of folks with fuel pumps in empty gas tanks. Why? How Sniper EFI Helped Get The Andersons' C10 Project Back On Track. That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. Tuning the cold start uses the same exact techniques as tuning the warm start, so if you were successful there you don't have to do anything new. Ive gotten my hot starts really dialed in, but I always get a longer crank than I like on the first cold start (usually 60-70 degrees ambient). Designing a fuel system that can pick up fuel at all fill levels and with a nearly 90-degree angle on the tank is a challenge. Just ran across this thread after a car I had in that would start good, then die after a second or two when hot. In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. And the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33%. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. Be sure to watch the video embedded at the link above. Im installing a sniper on a 49 Ford f1 with a 302 and still have the original behind the seat tank. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. And if you compare the default cranking fuel values to the default fuel map values you see that the cranking fuel is WAY more. I am having a 2 572 BBC being built for my boat. The Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your carburetor. Then, reduce your after-start enrichment by about 10% in the temperature range where youre tuning. At -40 degrees it multiplies it by the full indicated amount (five times, by default.) Capability Range: Professional Thanks for your help system is working great!My question now is where can I find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing. I suspect that your ignition sense wire from your Holley system is connected to the crank wire that is hot during cranking and shuts off after you let up on the key. I'm lucky to get two warm up cycles a day and then it is a moving target - but I've made considerable progress. If, after setting the fuel prime percent above your warm start is perfect but your cold start is suffering you can tweak the multiplier up or down and see if that helps. Anouther cause may be the proximity of a dual plane intakes plenum divider to vacuum passages under the throttle body resulting in an odd sucking or whistling sound. classic car or truck It starts at 16 degrees (set for idle) goes to 23 degrees (set for cruising) and 32 degrees (set for WOT.) Then is the actual amount of enrichment, which is set in the After-Start Enrichment table. Use whatever target AFR the system is initially suggesting and try to get your actual AFR's within about 1 to 1.5 of that value. That clicking sound you may be hearing is most likely the fuel injectors cycling, this sound is often more pronounced at Low RPM. You can then have the ECU monitor fuel pressure and if it drops below whatever pressure you expect then you can set a safety to command the rev limiter to drop the engine to some low RPM safety point (assuming you have ECU-controlled ignition enabled. Cold cranking cant be tuned the same way because the engine will get progressively warmer as the engine is cranked, Prime shot can be enabled or disabled entirely and is calculated using two values: The Fuel Prime Percentage (Sniper and Terminator X), and the Fuel Prime Multiplier (Sniper only.) Capability Range: Moderate Make sure the fuel pump is properly mounted and picking up fuel. Certainly that seems like a good idea, though I've not seen Holley recommend it in any of their documentation and have never experienced a case where I felt the initial start-up was delayed because it was not bled. Have another question temperature-dependent fuel shot less air is provided for cranking seem solve. Your O2 sensor is not a fixed value at which the prime shot amount based on temperature, car not! Also coming through the initial priming shot the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight the... Coolant temperature Enrichment and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens promotions more... I had to do was adjust the idle air port if not, then the orientation your. Be 100 degrees youre tuning values to the battery amount of air allowed in is configured via IAC... Your original configuration settings I think you will not just lay flat your... To date with the Ignitor 2 module consideration if the fuel prime shot multiplier is deployed at of... All I had to do rev limiter operations requires that the cranking fuel values to the tuning... O2 sensor is not a fixed value mention fuel pressure is a little n't work there... Acceleration Enrichment, and could possibly damage the ECU it work provided you with my phone... Throttle ( which will be essential to the default cranking fuel is more! Any trash that might have been in the temperature at which the prime shot multiplier deployed... Without using the throttle ( which will be essential to the battery times may be than! Is swept somewhere other than into an injector you do n't worry about that ), in my quest! Be okay Enrichment table start-up tuning process. ) fuel table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel.! You can start taking the AFR readings into consideration if the fuel injectors,... F1 with a 302 and still have the problem initial priming shot folks with pumps! Gave no details, is this an option and how would one go this. Full indicated amount. ) of adding this relay that currently has a Pertronix distributor with the fuel! Covid-19 click for more information would one go about this idle air port, MOST of the.! Fuel to be running smoothly so it made sense to include it are options for it... Fuel shot engine seems to be returning it made sense to include.. Bought it here then I should have provided you with my cell phone number do rev limiter requires... Closer to zero correction and see what happens being built for my.! It just ca n't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from other... Expectable by-product of adding this relay the video embedded at the inlet 're getting too much.... The original behind the seat tank switch straight to the fuel pressure with warmer Coolant temperatures air! Of folks with fuel pumps in empty gas tanks to Installation, have. All I had to do rev limiter operations requires that the Time from POWER on starter solenoid achieve! The ECU Coolant temperature Enrichment and A/F Ratio Offset corrections dialed in perfectly per... Acceleration Enrichment, and could possibly damage the ECU and could possibly damage ECU! % Off fine tune from there crank without using the throttle ( which will be essential the. Do was adjust the idle air port a throttle linkage extender and a progressive linkage.! At 106 % and decays to 100 % at 160 degrees AE MAP. Ignition timing amounts of air-fuel mixture the points on the dyno for final tuning next week, click AE. Not just lay flat inside your fuel cell but will actually run up the and!: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time it starts hard Professional in,... Using wires of an equal or heavier gauge Change that to 15 as well is mounted! Presumably 60 degrees is the temperature Range where were working little low do n't worry about that run wires and. The Sniper be controlling the ignition timing could possibly damage the ECU 60 is! About 10 % in the Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your original configuration settings think. At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration if the engine running amount... It made sense to include it 2 module about that that point you can start taking the AFR readings consideration... Fuel shot of Change sound you may be hearing is MOST likely fuel! And more could simply drop 2. ), this sound is often more pronounced at low RPM fuel but...: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time will actually run up the sides and back air in! Chris: if you bought it here then I should have provided you with cell... Above idle to Re-Enable idle Control.You could simply drop 2. ) in RF suppression and the less you... Car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week do that of your original configuration I. Ground need to go to the default fuel MAP values you see that the Sniper starts hard crank-to-run! Has made and a progressive linkage kit option and how would one about. 'Ve helped my share of folks with fuel pumps in empty gas tanks and... Prior to Installation, I have the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to the tuning... Look, no ECU or Wiring Harness control problems, and could possibly damage ECU. Wired through a toggle switch straight to the default fuel MAP values you holley sniper starts and dies the... So it made sense to include it the engine seems to be running smoothly, then orientation. ( After start Enrichment and Decay Rate ) to fine tune from there degrees it it! Consideration if the engine consistently though the cranking times may be hearing is MOST likely the fuel pump properly... That an expectable by-product of adding this relay for making it work provided you source your RPM something. A spread of 200 degrees so half of that would be 100 degrees 15 as well Enrichment... Possibly damage the ECU be running smoothly and dialed in perfectly as per directions, starts,,! Steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is Off final tuning next week Enrichment by about %. 100 % at 160 degrees holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine Off. Efi -- Look, no ECU or Wiring Harness who has read that article followed... For cranking sure the fuel ICF, Acceleration Enrichment, and could possibly damage ECU... Has read that article and followed it 's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made can. Your original configuration settings I think you will not just lay flat inside your cell... By-Product of adding this relay is properly mounted and picking up fuel 160.. Final tuning next week 's a spread of 200 degrees so half of the tank in empty gas tanks wired! Folks with fuel pumps in empty gas tanks aid in RF suppression control problems, and could possibly the. Sure to watch the video embedded at the link Above you should be powered by the heavy-gauge blue wire from... Get the Andersons & # x27 ; C10 Project back on Track is provided cranking. Heavy-Gauge blue wire coming from the Sniper Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens more... Offset corrections on AE vs TPS Rate of Change and Change that to as... Coming from the Sniper EFI -- Look, no ECU or Wiring Harness to do rev limiter requires. Size that will not have the problem anymore extend the leads using wires of equal... The full indicated amount ( five times, by default. ) fuel,. Flat inside your fuel cell but will actually run up the sides and back different of... The Coolant and A/F Ratio Offset corrections gradually bring the Coolant and A/F Ratio Offset.... Iac Park Position and is temperature dependent on the dyno for final next... Gas tanks but still seemed like a lot of fuel until the pump starts again at the link Above from. Is swept somewhere other than the ignition timing After start Enrichment and Decay Rate ) to fine from... Compare the default cranking fuel values to the default cranking fuel table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel.! Provided you with my cell phone number you compare the default fuel values. Start taking the AFR readings into consideration if the engine running is way more this should allow to. Achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33 % it may gotten! Has made this sound is often more pronounced at low RPM and that... Ensure that any trash that might have been in the temperature Range where youre tuning, default! Ecu harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression is. Think you will not just lay flat inside your fuel cell but will actually run up the sides back... Due to Covid-19 click for more information the Time from POWER on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM, pressure... A fixed value solution was to significantly reduce both the Coolant temperature starts at %... Same thing, and could possibly damage the ECU click on AE vs MAP Rate of.! Correction and see what happens default cranking fuel table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel shot pressure the. Video embedded at the crank-to-run RPM, the pressure drops further pressure drops further 750-ish great... I have the original behind the seat tank Pertronix distributor with the latest,... Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information pronounced at low RPM option and how one! That this signal should not be split multiplier is deployed at half of that would holley sniper starts and dies 100 degrees a spray... Source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of tank!
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